nasty sounds and vibrations...HELP!

[CoupeCrazy]

So I need some trouble shooting help.

The following is the chain of events thus far and a video.
Read first so you know what to look for in the video.

Pulled the transmission and had the torque converter re-stalled. Put everything back together with no issues. Fired the car right up and went and made a few street passes to see how the new stall was working, everything worked fine. Since then the car has been sitting for a few weeks, tried to start the car recently and had a very loud nasty grind when the engine was turning over once started nasty grind stop and engine appeared to run fine. So we were concerned the started wasn’t lining up right since it only happened when turning over. (Note: everything was the exact same as before when ran flawlessly except new converter) We took the trans shield inspection plate off to get a look at the flex plate and the starter gears and had noticed the starter gear was staying out or engaged to the flex plate rather than snapping back. So we pulled the starter to get it tested, tested fine but was under warranty so got a new one anyway. Installed the new starter and leaving the plug wires and coil off turned the car over without trying to start it to see if it made the sound, it did not. Figuring everything was hooked everything back up and tried to start the car for real. Made the horrific sound again and we noticed sparks shooting out from the starter area. Once started the sound stops but this time rather than just an idle we brought the RPM up and once it hits 3 grand the entire car stats to shake, and bad the higher the RPM the worse it shakes…..

Our next plan of attack was to pull the trans and take a closer look at the flex plate, make sure we didn’t lose a weight. Wanted others advise too though. Watch the video you can hear bad sound on start up, see the sparks and flex plate wobble and can hear/feel the vibration when the car is reved.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8tdOkXjhsjE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/8tdOkXjhsjE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>

[jtmustang]

umm..well starters...umm stop starting it .... ...and pull the trans out and inspect as if it didnt do it before but it does it now since u reinstalled the torque converter.. i would start there..

[CoupeCrazy]

Another thing to note that’s weird is right when we put the trans back in it started fine, no grind, no vibration, went and made a few street passes and parked the car.
2 weeks later I heard the grind for the first time on start, but drove fine with no vibration.
1 week after that, heard the grind again.
Sat for a month and went to take it to get the roll cage and wouldn’t start at all just nasty loud bad grind worst sound ever, we actually had to winch it on to the trailer,
then last weekend did this starter swap and back to where we were originally but with a horrible vibration…..
So the grind got worse with time and the new starter has the same problem as the old, both starter are identical.

[347HO]

I would double check your converter bolts are still tight.

[CoupeCrazy]

Plan to pull the trans and check everything Saturday morning. I will let you guys know what i find.

[CoupeCrazy]

Well..... now i am really lost!

Pulled the trans and EVERYTHING looked great, all bolts were tight, all welds fine, all weights fine...seriously everything fine.....except some of the teeth on the flex plate were munched.

Since the only thing that changed from working great to having all these problems was having the torque converter re-stalled, we figured we needed to try and isolate where the problem is coming from.

Decided to bolt the flex plate back on, pull the bell housing off the trans and bolt to motor, bolt starter back to bell housing. Now we started the engine with no trans on, SAME problem, nasty harsh grind!! Sticking our head up in the bell housing hole and watching the starter engage while turning over...once again everything is fine. Starter gear comes out and retracts fine, makes the nasty harsh sound and shoots little metal shavings all over (coming off the flex plate)

So I ask... how could the bell housing only bolt on one way and the flex plate only bolt on one way and the starter only bolt on one way... cause this problem I mean, obviously something is out of whack. My harmonic balancer has a wobble, so does anyone think that I could have a problem with my crank maybe has some sway or walk causing the flex plate to be out of line with the starter?? Or has anyone ever tested or know where to test a flex plate for trueness, something has to be miss aligned, I just have a hard time thinking the flex plate is bent or out of true since its SFI approved which should be stronger.

We are just at a complete loss… the only thing I can think of is need to test the flex plate for trueness if it checks out fine then it has to be in the motors rotating assembly. It’s just we pulled the trans and torque converter and are still experiencing the problem…… what could this be?? Need to find the problem so we have time to fix it and not miss any races this year.

[jtmustang]

man ..did u guys swap flexplates?

did u go out and stomp on the car and the something wasnt tight and now something is fubar..i know u said it was fine but are u  sure  u have correct starter ..

its hard to help someone like this over the net...

[347HO]

Covering all bases...  are the bolts used to install the starter of the correct shoulder diameter?

[CoupeCrazy]

yeah i am sure the starter is fine, had zero issues with it all last summer. All these problems started when we pulled the trans to put in the new torque converter. I did originally swap the starter thinking it was that but this new starter is the same and causing the same problems as the one that worked fine all year and went tits up itself.....

and yeah put all back together with the new converter and when i made the few street passes it was running fine. did 3600 launches and grabbed second gear ran out of road... only 2 times then parked the car for weekor 2, then started having all these issues....

just dont know what else it could be. has to be out of alignment there is no other reason for it just dont know if its the flexplate or engine..

[347HO]

again.... covering all bases;  the flexplate is installed front side fwd?

[CoupeCrazy]

yeah the flexplate is installed properly, infact it was never taken off untill i starting trouble shooting this problem. and again ran perfect all last year...

keep the thoughts and questions coming... each one make me double think or double check possible issues, thats all i can do at this point since i dont know whats causing this

Thanks

[347HO]

Have you measured you crank end-play?

[vristang]

My harmonic balancer has a wobble, so does anyone think that I could have a problem with my crank maybe has some sway or walk causing the flex plate to be out of line with the starter??

I'm just guessing and throwing things out, but....


Maybe stick a dial indicator on the flexplate and turn the engine over by hand to check runout?
If the damper is wobbling... it could be wobbling in the back...

[jtmustang]

did u ever figure this out..

[CoupeCrazy]

nope not yet. pretty sure my flexplate is fine, not bent or out of balance. measured crank end play....there was nothing... everything seems to be okay externally so I am leading toward something internally.

At the moment I have shifted gears to getting my roll cage painted and doing some sheet metal door panels and relocating new switches to the center consol, so my doors will be clean, but I will still have all the power windows and doors just with custom switch location.

Once I finish buttoning up those projects I will go back to the motor thing. I just wish I could figure it out I was looking foraward to making all the races this year. Hell if push comes to shove I will just have to buy a new motor..... oh darn...right?? LOL